Bullet-pointed thoughts on Proposition 8 and Gay Marriage

• In my opinion, anyone wanting to talk about the Supreme Court decision in California or Proposition 8 should be familiar with the actual court decision. Glen Greenwald gives a very precise explanation of what the decision does and does not do.
  
  
• My all-time favorite quote on the separation of church and state (I've probably listed it before in this blog and I'll probably list it again):
  
  "Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific values. Democracy requires that their proposals be subject to argument and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God's will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faith's, including those with no faith at all. Politics depends on our ability to persuade one another of common aims based on a common reality. It involves compromise- the art of what's possible. At some fundamental level, religion does not allow for compromise. It's the art of the impossible. If God has spoken, then followers are expected to live up to God's edicts, regardless of hte consequences. To base one's life on such uncompromising commitments may be sublime, but to base our policy-making on such commitments would be a dangerous thing." -Barack Obama
  
  

• Being post-Mormon and having family and friends who are currently Mormon, my interest in the LDS church's position on this subject is perhaps more focused than my interest in the perspectives of other groups who advocate for Proposition 8. I've read the church's statement released in June, 2008 as well as "The Divine Institution of Marriage" which they recently released, as well as the "Same Gender Attraction" interview with Apostle Dallin H. Oaks and Elder Lance B. Wickman, of the Quorum of the Seventy. While these serve to provide a good perspective on why the church and church members individually oppose gay marriage, I did not find any of their arguments compelling in regards to passing a government amendment. I would be interested in speaking with someone who holds an opposing viewpoint on this- not because I'm looking to fight, but because I would be interested to see if the reasons stated within these documents can withstand questioning and expansion.
  
  I'm sure I'll have more to say later.......for right now, that's about it.

UPDATE: OH COME ON CALIFORNIA!! RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR....

UPDATE #2: This was on Feministing via magdalune and I think it's hilarious:

Why you should vote YES on Prop 8

...the state amendment to ban gay marriage if you live in California.

1. Because America is a Christian nation. That's why Hindus and Muslims aren't allowed to marry.

2. Because marriage is an intrinsically religious legal ceremony. That's why atheists can't get married and why you can't have a non-religious ceremony.

3. Because gay marriage will undermine traditional marriages. That's why traditional marriages always work.

4. Because gay marriage is disgusting and we don't want to think about what they're doing in the marriage bed. That's why we never let ugly people or morbidly obese people or old people marry.

5. Because marriage is for procreation. That's why sterile couples and childfree couples aren't allowed to marry.

6. Because if we allow gay marriage, then schools will have to encourage it among our children. That's why everyone is pushing interracial marriage on kindergartners all the time.

7. Because if we allow gay marriage, churches will be forced to marry gay people. Like they're forced to marry anyone else who walks through their doors.

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The fact of the matter remains that if you take someone's concept of GOD out of the picture, the reasons to oppose gay marriage are pretty slim. Not only is it offensive to gay and lesbians, it's offensive to those of us who have a different idea of who God really is and what God thinks. That's the trouble- when we get to arguing about God, we've stepped into the realm of insanity.